Why 36-24-36 is Bullshit…and the Title of Our Blog

· by · in About Us. ·

Distortion.
Image: pincurlmag.com

Elle Says:

The title for this blog is – obviously – ironic.  In documenting our weight loss journeys, we want to discuss false ideals of body image and how they have affected our own weight struggles. In no way do we believe that the “ideal” woman has bust, waist, and hip measurements of 36-24-36.

Puh-leeze.

Not even two of our most famous icons of beauty had those measurements.  Audrey Hepburn (love her), of classic-beauty, Breakfast at Tiffany’s, and strange-accent fame, was a 31.5-22-31.  Tiny, yes, but she had her own weight issues; before she was famous and was working as a dancer after the war, she struggled with overeating.  Who knew?  Marilyn Monroe, on the other hand, of Kennedy, Playboy, and bombshell fame, was supposedly a 36-24-34.  Smaller than you thought still, huh?

Daniel Akst published an article* in the Summer 2005 Wilson Quarterly that investigated evolutionary and biological reasons why “Looks Do Matter.” In it, he cites Devendra Singh’s research, which finds that waist-to-hip ratio was more important than the numbers.  Despite Audrey and Marilyn’s different sizes, they each had the same waist-to-hip ratio: 0.7.

If 36-24-36 seems an impossible number to achieve, 0.7 is almost worse: we cannot change the ratio of our bodies on the skeletal level.  Yes, we may trim our waistline and add muscle to our glutes for a more hourglass shape, but in our fittest shape imaginable, the width of our hips is determined by genetics, and my mother’s small boobs got passed down the line. Which is, of course, where plastic surgery comes into play – the attempt to achieve a false standard.

But those numbers exist – and not just in our pop culture consciousness.  Claiming that these measurements represent an impossible ideal is nothing new; people have been saying it for years; Dove launched a famous “Real Beauty” campaign to challenge such notions.  What persists, however, is the ideal of uniformity. If the numbers no longer have as much meaning, we have not yet lost the desire to look the same, and everyone – from clothing manufacturers to magazines – seems to expect us to.

Just as those numbers do not represent female beauty, neither does uniformity. When I was fighting my mental battle with anorexia in high school, a beloved teacher called me aside to talk to me about my shrinking physique.  She held her arm out to mine: “Look at our wrists.  They’re bigger, and that’s OK.  There really is such a thing as big-boned.  Some people aren’t meant to be tiny.”  She was right.  Some women’s collarbones are delicate and look like the slightest pressure would cause them to snap; my clavicle looks like it would need a wrecking ball to fracture it.  Yes, there has been a recent uprising of beautiful plus-size models such as Kate Dillon or Crystal Renn, as well there should be.  Bravo, universe.  But let’s face it: my size 12 involves a lot more bumps, rolls, and cellulite than plus size models’ size 12.  They’re healthy, gorgeous, fit women and beautiful as-is, and I still need to work at it.  The number on the scale when they weigh themselves at a size 12 is probably significantly lower than the 200 lbs. I shoved into a size 12 pair of jeans.

A size, a number, a weight – none of it can be relegated to the term “normal” or “average” and especially not “ideal.”

So our blog, thirtysix24thirtysix.  This is what it says about us: we’re aware of the ideal, we’re not it, but we want to talk about it.  We’re also cheeky.

Links:

*”Looks Do Matter” by Daniel Akst.  A web version is available here.

“Television Viewers’ Ideal Body Proportions: The Case of the Curvaceously Thin Woman” by Kristen Harrison, published in Sex Roles 48.5-6 (2003): 255-264.  A web version is available here. An intriguing read; check it out.

“Life-size Barbie gets real women talking” by Lisa Marsh.  The doll that depicts what Barbie would like life is she were a real woman was actually created by a recovering anorexic, a fact that makes this image even more compelling.

If Barbie was a real person. Totally realistic.
Image: today.msnbc.msn.com

 

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92 responses on “Why 36-24-36 is Bullshit…and the Title of Our Blog”

  1. brilliant read. thanks for sharing! totally agree that some people aren’t meant to be tiny – but i think another, often overlooked problem, is that some people aren’t meant to bigger. some girls are naturally thin or small, and though we may hate them ;) it’s not our place to tell them they need to gain some weight in order to look healthy. don’t get me wrong, i agree with everything you’ve pointed out in this article, i just think there are two sides and the most important thing about having a good body image is feeling confident, happy and healthy in your body.

    • Thank you for pointing out that some people also aren’t meant to be bigger. I only wish people didn’t always look at people who aren’t like them and see it as a personal insult or other comment on themselves right away. Live and let live. So sad how media just keep inciting women to hate each other more and more. I’d add that “thin” is a negative term meaning TOO slim, the equivalent of “fat”–neither is a nice word. It was a condition that used to be called “slim” before it became so rare and despised.

  2. Thank you thank you thank you for posting this. This was amazing. I also obsessively love Audrey Hepburn. I once saw in a magazine pictures of Audrey and Marilyn with notes from plastic surgeons suggesting how they would alter those legendary beauties to make them “perfect”. It made me sick. Thank you for being REAL and for taking pride in who you are…and for sharing this with others. We all need the empowerment. Thanks so much for this.

  3. Fantastic blog. Having worked as a Commercial model and being told that my six foot tall, size ten was fat several times, I wholeheartedly agree with this. It’s about time our ideals changed.

  5. The more we talk about this, the more we can change views. It is so important to feel empowered and pass that feeling on to younger women who struggle with the media’s notion of beauty and “normal”.

  7. From another cheeky gal, I say hello and yay! For this blog. Congratulations on the Freshly Pressed! I just read a book about Breakfast at Tiffany’s, with a lot of attention given to Audrey and Hollywood’s difficulty dressing her. She was among the first to refuse having her own shape camouflaged by perfection seeking dressers and stylists. Good for you! I look forward to reading more!

  8. i am a man and the dove women look much better than the twiggy things up above…..but there is a very large womens mass illusion and obsession with this weght thing…..i for one dont understand it…….apart from the obvious media generated hype………even my 12 year old daughter is showing signs of becoming skinny obsessed…ill quickly direct her away from that mindset……….its a very powerful manipulation of a womans self image that is going on………

  9. Hi! I am 35-24-36. I just gained 5 lbs. My mom had the same hour glass shape and similar measurement, even after having 3 children. Only menopause has affected her shape in the last 5 years.

  10. Huge new fan here … this is such an important topic, and I’m glad you’re taking it on! I have a 10-year-old girl, and I see her making self assessments almost daily based on her friends, the images in books/magazines, etc. We’re talking about it all (the first step, I know), but the conversation needs to be bigger than this!

    Now I’m about to show her your final Barbie picture…so eye-opening!

    Thank you thank you thank you… :)

  11. I know I love food. I think fitness is important. Big gap there, but I am happy about how I look and feel. I may be too small/tall/fat/thin/old/young for some others, but thats their issues, not mine. Thanks for posting this – may you have health and happiness for the rest of your life.

  12. Congrats on being Freshly Pressed! So glad I found your blog – will definitely be following your conversations. I’m 5’1″ 29 year old with mobility issues, so maintaining a healthy body shape/size is very important to me – it’s literally easier for me to move around. But it’s hard to keep that perspective and not get swept up in the “skinny-mania” that seems to be everywhere!!

  14. Love this! I am surprised at Marilyn Monroe’s measurements since I had read somewhere that she was a size 10-12. Rumor and innuendo! Hahaha! Who knows? She was a bombshell that’s for sure.
    I am pretty small but could never have a small waistline. My rib cage starts where my hip bone ends!
    Great post and congrats on being Freshly Pressed!

    • I loved Barbie but never thought I was supposed to look like a plastic doll whose knees broke when you bent them . . . not sure how people get that idea any more than they’d try or expect to look like a Lego man if they were a boy!!

  17. Nice, insightful post. As we are documenting our own weight-loss journey we have found it is all too easy to get obsessed with the “numbers” if one is not careful. Everyone’s “ideal” weight and shape is definitely going to be unique. However, there seems to be a growing trend in America to promote the idea that being obese is fine and justified and one should basically just “give up” trying to lose weight and “accept” being fat. We are NOT OK with that mentality. It is just as unhealthy as accepting that being waif thin and starving oneself is OK. We promote healthy living. We feel it is MUCH more important what we are choosing to eat and drink (fuel our bodies with) than what size we end up (because if you choose to move and eat right, your body will naturally stabilize). We also have to choose to think healthy, positive thoughts about ourselves, our bodies, and our lives.Easy to say. Very hard to do in our mentally and physically unhealthy society.
    Best wishes on your blogging and your journey toward health, and Congrats on being Fresh Pressed! :) – UM&W

    • This is a really good comment – it’s one thing to accept that you’re naturally curvy, and another to kid yourself into thinking obese is ok. This isn’t just in America by the way – I’ve been a UK size 16 for many years and have been telling myself I’m just built bigger, but on the BMI scale, I’m obese. Only when my clothes started getting tighter did I finally recognise that actually, my current size isn’t healthy. This post is great in highlighting the need to set realistic goals – I don’t believe I’ll ever be a size 8. But it’s also brilliant that thirtysix24thirtysix is about losing weight in the right way, with support and friendship and encouragement. I look forward to reading more about your individual journeys towards your own individual ideals.

      • oops – sorry, missed the fact you were UK! Love your positive and healthy outlook. It’s interesting when the “reality check” finally hits and motivates someone into action. We’ve had a whole paradigm shift in our thought pattern over the past 2 months, which has led to wonderful change for us personally. Blogging the journey helps a lot too – makes you feel ownership in your journey! – Oh, and PS we loved the Barbie photo. Classic!

  18. Call me a sexist pig, but . . . .

    All the Dove chicks are Hotter than the VS chicks.

    But what do I know?

  20. Great post, thanks for sharing this! I have five adult daughters and I tried to instill in them a love for themselves as they were. Worked okay for some not so much for others. I’ll be passing this on.

  21. I LOVE THIS!!! So grateful for this blog! I have recently joined a gym as part of my goal to change my life in a positive way and have slightly been obsessing about how much I go and how slooooowww the results seem. I can forsee how helpful this blog will be for me. You ladies rock!

  23. 36-24-36 came from Sir Mix-A-Lot’s infamous song Baby got Back which highlights his love for Sistah’s aka Black women’s round plump derrieres.

    A 36-24-36 body is not the one in which you are referencing, where the hips are exceptionally wide making the waist appear teeny tiny (as pictured above). The extra inches are in the back, and that’s not something abnormal.

    I applaud you on your journey for a healthier life, but don’t knock what you don’t know.

    Lyrics to help you better understand the 36-24-36 body type: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/sirmixalot/babygotback.html

    • Actually we are preparing a follow up to further discuss the title through the eyes of Sir Mix A Lot,.. However, I believe the lyric is “36 24 36″ ONLY if she’s 5’3. Sir Mix A lot is knocking that ideal.

    • “36x24x36″ has actually been around a lot longer than the Sir Mix A Lot’s song! It’s been a “standard” for decades and Sir M referenced it in his song, he didn’t invent it, so “don’t knock what you don’t know”. ;)

      To the blogger of this article, I like what you have to say about our cultural issues regarding weight and beauty. However. your examples don’t really show that this measurement is unobtainable. Audrey and Marilyn both had tiny waists and the same bust to hip numbers (or close). Audrey went hungry during the war and fought to not overeat later because food habits during time of stress and deprivation were ingrained. So yes, she had food issues, but not completely for vanity reasons. Marilyn had what some would consider even more ideal measurements with smaller hips. Another commenter said she was 36x24x36, like her mother before her. So it’s not unrealistic. Uncommon? Sure. But for some of us, obtainable.

      I agree that too much manipulation of the media about how we should look is happening and the flip side to that is just as bad with “fat” being the new norm.

  24. Bravo! I’ve always been slender, but I hate the way youth has been driven to believe this is THE IDEAL!!! My daughter takes after the other side of the family, is shorter, and as she say “Festively plump”. How I love that. She is actually womanly, has big bones and can tend to gain weight. Is she beautiful, desirable – oh yeah! And sought after.

  27. Thanks for the article. Being an hourglass shape and still not in ration (with who’s criteria, I may ask?) I’m pretty sure a man came up with this nonsense. By all means we should look after our bodies because lets face it, we feel sexy and confident to tackle anything, but to place yourself in an “ideological’ mould from some person that obviously never worshipped the real womans figure is obserd! Thanks again! Love it! :)

    P.S: CONGRATS on getting freshly pressed :)

  28. I’m partial to women that have curves and things. They just seem more normal and natural to me. I only wish that this false standard of beauty, where people think someone in a size 0 is attractive, starts to fade away. But who am I kidding, we live in a rather shallow society. Everybody is beautiful in their own way, but like I said I’m partial to rounder women; married one in fact… ;-)

  30. Haha.. Big Boned really is a thing! And actually, even slightly bigger than normal bones can change your weight more than your appearance – I way shockingly more than what I look like I should weigh, and apparently its all in my bones! Well.. not all of it, but the part that you can’t seem to figure out :)

  31. Great post. I think people focus too much on numbers, if you’re a size 14 but tall it sort of equals out. It’s proportional.
    Society should encourage healthy bodies, not skinny. As long as you’re healthy, feel good in yourself it doesn’t matter if you’re 4 dress sizes bigger than the girl in the magazine. Truth be told, if given a choice most men would choose a woman who wasn’t stick-thin, it’s just not attractive.

  33. Equally important to note is women with big noses. I am proof that you can still get, catch, bag, marry, and divorce a man, many attractive men in fact, even though I can almost flag down a plane with my nose. Thx for the post.

  34. Great post, thanks for sharing. It can be so frustrating living in a society with such unrealistic ideals for how women should look. I look forward to following your blog!

  35. As a married man (yes, I am NOT a RC cleric!) I, too, have dealt with overweight all my life. And even men get the ‘but you don’t look fat’- even when we are! And, yes, some men actually CARE- for both personal appearance, and health reasons. But some of us moderns SHOULDN’T be as ‘big’ as we are- just read the book ‘Wheat Belly’ and realize what Audrey ate, and even more, what Marilyn ate, is NOT what WE are eating today. That will help put much into proper ‘perspective. And, for the record, I think Grace Kelly is even prettier than Audrey or Marilyn… What was her physique?

    • So absolutely true that we are just not eating at all what Marilyn, Audrey or anyone of that tiny era ate, and before we decide how to change our beauty “ideals” we need to look at the fact we are not eating natural or proper food any more. Someone comments about their being size 10 or 12. Those sizes then are the equivalent of a so-called 4 or 2 nowadays. Sizes have been stretched drastically to flatter purchasers and bear no relationship to the sizing of that era. Their actual clothes still exist and have been measured, and they are nothing like the 10s and 12s of today’s Banana Republic and the like!

  36. A very good read and I applaud you for adding your own personal information to prove your point. The best blogs consist of the writers being open to the world and I think you let your inner thoughts and experiences shine throughout this piece. I wish you success with your blog.

  39. You touched on my biggest problem with the “ideal” – it doesn’t matter whether the ideal is a waif, a voluptuous Botticelli babe, or something in between, the problem is that it’s always about everyone aspiring to one uniform ‘ideal’ – It’s the same reason I have a problem with people telling me that they are “real” women (as if a thin/size 0 female is not also a “real” woman?) or with the fact that “plus” size and “regular” models do not to my knowledge ever coexist in one magazine. Can’t they we have attractive women of all shapes and sizes together for once, please?

    • Exactly! So disturbing how one person’s dissatisfaction with their perception of “ideal” results in them turning around and trying to invalidate everyone smaller than them by alleging they are not “real” women. Thank you, thank you. Let’s all just be nice.

    • Love your comment. I am a size 0/1 and people keep saying, you need to eat. I eat a lot, I just eat healthy. I love that we are all so different, it makes this world beautiful.

  41. After years of informal male research on the subject, if the face above them is smiling at you, the ta-tas (et al) look good no matter what the measurements.

  42. I think I agree with Jon Wilson to the degree that people are attracted and drawn in, turned on and grown in that turned-on-ness by more that some ratio. But media keeps returning to this, to shame women who are bigger/smaller than that. I think it’s stupid because people’s tastes change and grow based on what’s happening with them. I don’t think it’s that stagnant or has a measuring stick that goes into effect every time someone turns to a woman about to be attracted. Glad this blog is here and I hope other women will talk about and blog about their resistance to this mess. I mean, great if you’re that – but I guarantee you someone can always come along and engage your partner’s curiosity that isn’t that. Attraction isn’t that static.

  44. i’m not sure quite how to put this. thank you for your post. i was recently diagnosed with anorexia and, in some strange dose of cosmic serendipity, various bloggers who have suffered the same/similar things have found me, without me actively searching for them. you have overcome this illness and are a wonderful writer. that, to me, is as inspiring as the perfect imperfection of your post. i haven’t quite got the courage to admit on my own site that i have an ED, but i can’t wait for the day that I can help people in the way you do.

    thanks :)

  45. This is the ONLY place I have found where someone agrees with me on the Dove “Real Beauty” campaign – that, in order to truly represent “real beauty”, it should have a variety of models, not just a bunch of uniform models with a slightly bigger waistline than the Victoria’s Secret bunch. I was starting to feel like I was a bit weird for not really embracing the campaign. Cracking post :)

  47. Such a great post! Really! So many weight loss or body image posts are about girls posting their favorite recipes that are nothing but chicken breasts and fat free muffins OR are women on the other end of the spectrum bashing the concept of losing weight to be healthy, people with a smaller body frame or trying to say that obesity is healthy. You are right there in the middle on target for what’s real! Some of us need to lose weight to keep our bodies healthy, but what weight, size or physique that is will be different for us all and what we eat to get there will vary. Bravo from a Dietitian who wants to see everyone healthy AND happy! :-)

  50. I really enjoyed your article. I thought it was very interesting.

    Can I point out one thing. The life size image you have of Barbie looks terrible, I totally agree! But… If you have a photo of a life sized image of Barbie, then why doesn’t it look like a photo of the REAL Barbie.

    Don’t get me wrong, I do think Barbie has an unnatural body shape, but the shape of the life-size model in the photo you have is just stupidly and ridiculously out of proportion.

    Anyway great article, and long live natural women. (The way your’re meant to be.)

    Signed… A man.

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